Comments on: Tell Amazon they are wrong http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/tell-amazon-they-are-wrong/ Sun, 14 Mar 2010 04:06:04 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: nicola http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/tell-amazon-they-are-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-20975 nicola Wed, 15 Apr 2009 00:20:18 +0000 http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/?p=3867#comment-20975 Over the years I've been beaten so badly I ended up in the hospital. Men have tried to burn my house down--after failing to break in and show me what I was missing. Someone shotgunned the window of my bedroom. All because I'm a lesbian. My books were delisted because I'm a lesbian. <i>Stay</i>, for example, is not a book 'on sexuality', it has no lesbian sex in it whatsoever--Aud doesn't even kiss anyone. The only sex is heterosex. But the book was delisted. Feel free to offer me an explanation for the delisting that doesn't, in some way, involve me being a lesbian. I don't see the need to refrain from accusations while they refuse to either explain fully or apologise. Over the years I’ve been beaten so badly I ended up in the hospital. Men have tried to burn my house down–after failing to break in and show me what I was missing. Someone shotgunned the window of my bedroom. All because I’m a lesbian.

My books were delisted because I’m a lesbian.

Stay, for example, is not a book ‘on sexuality’, it has no lesbian sex in it whatsoever–Aud doesn’t even kiss anyone. The only sex is heterosex. But the book was delisted.

Feel free to offer me an explanation for the delisting that doesn’t, in some way, involve me being a lesbian.

I don’t see the need to refrain from accusations while they refuse to either explain fully or apologise.

]]> By: Kelley http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/tell-amazon-they-are-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-20964 Kelley Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:50:01 +0000 http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/?p=3867#comment-20964 <strong>Dave</strong>, I don't think Amazon hates LGBT people either, and I definitely think bad process, not evil intention, is the culprit here. Nevertheless, the net effect of this bad process was to disproportionately impact books by LGBT authors or with LGBT content. And what people tend to respond to first is the impact... then in the absence of data (from Amazon, in this case), they make assumptions about how/why such things can happen. When the people in question have previous experience of discrimination, that is generally the "why" they go to first. I don't believe I've stated in this post that Amazon has a policy of discrimination. And to be clear, I agree with you -- there's no evidence for that right now. But they sure do have a great big perception problem to manage. Dave, I don’t think Amazon hates LGBT people either, and I definitely think bad process, not evil intention, is the culprit here.

Nevertheless, the net effect of this bad process was to disproportionately impact books by LGBT authors or with LGBT content. And what people tend to respond to first is the impact… then in the absence of data (from Amazon, in this case), they make assumptions about how/why such things can happen. When the people in question have previous experience of discrimination, that is generally the “why” they go to first.

I don’t believe I’ve stated in this post that Amazon has a policy of discrimination. And to be clear, I agree with you — there’s no evidence for that right now. But they sure do have a great big perception problem to manage.

]]> By: Dave http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/tell-amazon-they-are-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-20902 Dave Tue, 14 Apr 2009 03:10:21 +0000 http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/?p=3867#comment-20902 That's not to minimize the impact to Nicola, who had most of her books delisted for a few days. Of course it was distressing to her. It's just that the whole "never ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity" seems to have been the case here, as best we know at this point. That the Amazon system allows for this is a big pile of fugazi. If some dude in France with unknown fluency in the language of the metadata can screw up the catalog worldwide, that's a big problem that they need to fix in a big hurry. Nicola's call for an apology is quite reasonable. However, making the claim that the company has a policy of discrimination is a strong accusation that needs to be underpinned with strong evidence. I work on a system a fraction the scale and complexity of Amazon's, and a large part of my energy goes to dealing with issues where production behaves in unexpected ways that it didn't in the test lab. Complexity is a bear to deal with. I do agree with the quote in the Seattle PI piece saying, effectively, "Why was the PR response such weak tea? What do those folks get paid for, if not to deal with this kind of problem?" That’s not to minimize the impact to Nicola, who had most of her books delisted for a few days. Of course it was distressing to her. It’s just that the whole “never ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity” seems to have been the case here, as best we know at this point.

That the Amazon system allows for this is a big pile of fugazi. If some dude in France with unknown fluency in the language of the metadata can screw up the catalog worldwide, that’s a big problem that they need to fix in a big hurry. Nicola’s call for an apology is quite reasonable. However, making the claim that the company has a policy of discrimination is a strong accusation that needs to be underpinned with strong evidence.

I work on a system a fraction the scale and complexity of Amazon’s, and a large part of my energy goes to dealing with issues where production behaves in unexpected ways that it didn’t in the test lab. Complexity is a bear to deal with.

I do agree with the quote in the Seattle PI piece saying, effectively, “Why was the PR response such weak tea? What do those folks get paid for, if not to deal with this kind of problem?”

]]> By: Dave http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/tell-amazon-they-are-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-20885 Dave Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:05:30 +0000 http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/?p=3867#comment-20885 It's not and never was queer specific. That's where people were looking and saw delisted books. Books on all kinds of sexuality, sociology et al got the same treatment, they just didn't have a vocal constituency behind them. http://blog.seattlepi.com/amazon/archives/166329.asp#extended has some of the story. The whole "Amazon hates gays" framing never made sense to me. My vision of Amazon is a company that wants every dollar in the world. As long as you have dollars they couldn't care less what you preferences are, as long as you spend money on those preferences with Amazon. It’s not and never was queer specific. That’s where people were looking and saw delisted books. Books on all kinds of sexuality, sociology et al got the same treatment, they just didn’t have a vocal constituency behind them.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/amazon/archives/166329.asp#extended

has some of the story. The whole “Amazon hates gays” framing never made sense to me. My vision of Amazon is a company that wants every dollar in the world. As long as you have dollars they couldn’t care less what you preferences are, as long as you spend money on those preferences with Amazon.

]]> By: Jo http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/tell-amazon-they-are-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-20873 Jo Mon, 13 Apr 2009 22:57:41 +0000 http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/?p=3867#comment-20873 A queer-specific glitch. Hmm, wonder what the odds of that are. Signed the petition, etc. Please keep us posted. A queer-specific glitch. Hmm, wonder what the odds of that are.

Signed the petition, etc. Please keep us posted.

]]> By: Adrian http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/tell-amazon-they-are-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-20866 Adrian Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:30:50 +0000 http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/?p=3867#comment-20866 "Thanks for contacting us. We recently discovered a glitch in our systems and it's being fixed. Thanks again for contacting us. We hope to see you again soon." Uhuh. “Thanks for contacting us. We recently discovered a glitch in our systems and it’s being fixed. Thanks again for contacting us. We hope to see you again soon.”

Uhuh.

]]> By: barbara sanchez http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/tell-amazon-they-are-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-20858 barbara sanchez Mon, 13 Apr 2009 05:16:43 +0000 http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/?p=3867#comment-20858 Signed the petition on N's blog. E-mailed all my friends. Signed the petition on N’s blog. E-mailed all my friends.

]]> By: Adrian http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/tell-amazon-they-are-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-20847 Adrian Mon, 13 Apr 2009 02:19:24 +0000 http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/?p=3867#comment-20847 Sent 'em an email. Sent ‘em an email.

]]> By: Ian Welsh http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/tell-amazon-they-are-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-20836 Ian Welsh Mon, 13 Apr 2009 00:44:46 +0000 http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/?p=3867#comment-20836 According to a friend of mine this is also happening at Amazon.ca (the Canadian version). Why this matters? Because it's probably illegal up here. List of some effected books: http://community.livejournal.com/meta_writer/11992.html According to a friend of mine this is also happening at Amazon.ca (the Canadian version).

Why this matters? Because it’s probably illegal up here.

List of some effected books:
http://community.livejournal.com/meta_writer/11992.html

]]> By: Kelley http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/tell-amazon-they-are-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-20823 Kelley Sun, 12 Apr 2009 23:22:04 +0000 http://www.kelleyeskridge.com/?p=3867#comment-20823 Thanks to all for your actions. Nicola and I both really appreciate it. Thanks to all for your actions. Nicola and I both really appreciate it.

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